Charlie Rose Amy Goodwin- A discussion about Occupy Wall Street


Ah many of this people you can even consider them as integrated into the wage system.  Because at the end of the month, they don’t even get salaries.


Which is why they climb at the tops of these buildings and jump off.  Living horrific conditions.


This is just replicated ah… throughout the world.  Whether it’s in the Philippines, whether it’s in Vietnam.  Ah… and, and its kind of race to the bottom.


Ah which is…  American workers are being told that they somehow have to be competitive in the global marketplace.


What it means is that they have to be competitive with prison labor in China.


And that reconfiguration into an Oligarchic Corporate State is already far advanced.


So ah… I think this people are very, very clear.  Ah that we cannot sustain ourselves.  Both not only as a society, but even as a species.  If we don’t confront the corporate state.


I think it’s a kind of return to sanity.  I think it’s a confrontation with dead ideas.  Ah I think it’s a demand for justice.


And I think it has an important difference between, both the Civil Rights Movement and the Anti-War Movement.  In that it attracts labor.  Ah and it attracts


 Charlie Rose:  Labor as in organized labor


Chris Hedges:  Yeah.  And you know labor if you go back to the 60’s was very antagonistic to the Anti-War Movement and the Civil Rights Movement.  You had Mini, Kirkland and you know supporting Nixon’s war


 Charlie Rose:  You had the media supporting the leaders


Chris Hedges:  Right


Charlie Rose:  Is it essential to reform capitalism?  Or in a sense find an alternative to capitalism?


 Chris Hedges:  I think there are different forms of Capitalism.


Uh there is the Penny Capitalism in farm town when I grew in farm state New York.  Where farmer brought in their products and sold it.


There’s a Regional Capitalism.  Where you have a local business owner.


Remember small businesses are whacked by corporations… ah and big banks.  They won’t give them credit now.


Uh and there is Corporate Capitalism which is something else.  Corporate capitalism is super national.  Has no loyalty to the nation state.  Ah and it is of course hollowing us out from the inside.


Ah and I think Karl Polanyi  sort of nailed in the Great Transformation where in 1944.  Where he talked about unregulated unfettered capitalism as essentially plunging any nation into a Mafia economy, and a mafia political system.


And I think that’s what’s happening


 Charlie Rose:  Some people asked about leadership.  Uhm is it necessary to have defined leaders?


Amy Goodman:  It’s…


Charlie Rose:  Or is everybody a leader?


 Amy Goodman:  the strength that people feel empowered that they are their own leaders.  But the creativity down at Street here in New York.


I mean just look at the signs.  Uhm you get the pizza boxes coming in from all over.  So they take the boxes.  They are very conservationist when they come to being Green down there.  Uhm they take the boxes and they make signs.


They say things like – “It’s not a Recession.  It’s a Robbery!”


Or as you’re talking about corporations.


They say – “We believe corporations are people.  When Texas executes one!”  Uhm…


Charlie Rose:  A corporation



Amy Goodman:  We believe corporations, yes.  Our people when Texas executes one.


And it’s uniting many different movements.  And although that has been talked about as its weakness.  I think the opposite.  I think that is its strength.

Because so many people are finding a place there.


You know uhm corporate America has a problem.  When so many people have been disempowered and left out of the system.


The joblessness, the unemployment.  Uhm when people don’t have health care.  Then they have less invested in the system.


And so what is happening right now.  Is you have people saying – We must change it.  They see all of this issues as linked.

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