And what that mean is, we, as a society shouldn’t want the police to kick in the door of a peaceful honest person to stop him from doing whatever it is he’s doing.
Smoking pot or whatever victimless crime that’s currently illegal and if you draw the line there, I think you got a very sane response or very sane idea of the limits of state power.
And it’s all about mitigating harm and keeping people safe. Now, obviously we can only, there’s a trade-off between freedom and risk.
So there’s the tension between let’s say, uhm, the right to privacy and finding actual terrorists. And so if we want to maximize we’re gonna find everyone who’s a terrorist.
Well then, we would just, there’ll be no such thing as privacy and the government could read all our email and look at our windows etc. So there’s a tension there and we have to keep finding the sweet spot but it’s attention that everyone should recognize.
Joe Rogan: So do you think that these new laws that are being passed like the NDAA, do you think that’s the idea as the population increases, is crime going to keep up or pick up to a point where they’re gonna need something like this?
I mean. when you think of someone being able to detain people without warrants,
Sam Harris: Right
Joe Rogan: without even having to inform family that could be an American citizen, I mean at what point in time would that be effective, you know?
Sam Harris: Yeah, I don’t see and again, that’s not really my area to have a very strong opinion but you know, I would be open to any counter-argument on this.
But I’ve never seen the, the wisdom or necessity of infringing on our existing laws to fight the war and terror. So the idea, that you know, the people in Guantánamo.
I understand that different things apply on a battlefield and you know, in a crime fighting scenario in you know in the States. But why… why people don’t have the right to counsel or the right to see the evidence against them. I just.. it seems like
Joe Rogan: It’s crazy.
Sam Harris: If they’re guilty, let the truth shine on the data.
Joe Rogan: But what always hurt is, you know, when we’re growing up, there was always a problem with Russia.
There’s always this idea that we could go to war with Russia. But there was really no strong belief amongst people that we were the good guys.
Sam Harris: Yeah
Joe Rogan: That we did the good guy’s stuff only. You know that America was making sure that the rest of the world didn’t start speaking German or Japanese or any crazy
Sam Harris: Right
Joe Rogan: It doesn’t feel like that anymore. You know now, it seems as the age of information has gotten us to the 2012 date, like where we’re at right now.
It’s so easy to get information. People are so much more cynical about their intentions. So if you see laws like these, what’s the motivation to crack down more on civil liberties?
Is it just to make it easier for them? I mean, is it to create a bigger government? I mean what is the motivation for that?
Sam Harris: Well,it’s… It is fear in some perception of necessity of, of taking the friction out of the system. The system that would keep us safe or respond to an attack or detect an attack. Uhm, and it’s understandable.
When you think about what the president’s daily briefing must look like. You know, it’s gotta be like absolutely terrifying and the reality of the prospect of nuclear terrorism is, like once you actually just put those goggles on and say, yes, the nuclear non-proliferation is more or less a lost cause.
I mean the technology spreading, the materials spreading, you got the 30,000 out of work scientists in the former Soviet Union who have, who are not taken cared of and who have every economic incentive to not be entirely ethical.