Fuck that! That’s too long. That freaks people out.
Sam Harris: Yeah. It freaks me but with good reason. ‘Coz there is a chaos factor to psychedelics which you don’t get doing yoga.
Joe Rogan: <laughing>
Sam Harris: That’s their power and their parrow because the.. other thing that McKenna said uhm, which is obviously quite true which is that if you teach someone to meditate, you teach them to do yoga, you teach them, you tell them to whatever spiritual discipline you think is so potent.
Based on their talent or based on their happen stance or nothing might happen. They just might get bored. It doesn’t matter if they do it for an hour or a week. It’s not necessarily gonna move them.
But if you give them a hundred micrograms of LSD or a sufficient dose of anything in that family, uhm. There is just no question. Something’s gonna happen.
Now it could be very pleasant, it could be very unpleasant. It could be mixed but there’s gonna be a break with their ordinary consensus trance of egoity and uhm, it’s huge
Joe Rogan: It’s a shortcut.
Sam Harris: It’s a huge shortcut but the problem is, it just sorts of puts you in a slingshot and you’re not quite sure where it’s pointed and you’re going there.
Joe Rogan: So, it’s a method but you think that meditation is probably a uniquely effective method if you really follow it through.
I mean I think of meditation the same way I think of martial arts. You know I could teach you a spinning wheel kick. I could show you it.
Sam Harris: Right
Joe Rogan: And you might not be ever be able to do it right. You might not have the flexibility, the coordination, whether it’s mental flexibility.
You might not even be able to focus on it or be intense enough or spend in.. be disciplined enough to stretch yourself to pull something off.
Sam Harris: Right.
Joe Rogan: But you can’t say that another person can’t pull it off. It is possible to pull it off. It’s possible to be an expert at it. B
ut out of all the people that you teach this, you know, like Kundalini or some intense form of meditation where you achieve altered states of consciousness, how many people are going to have the focus, the drive, the discipline?
How many people are gonna put the time and the numbers to actually pull off an altered state?
Sam Harris: Yeah
Joe Rogan: I’ve never done it.
Sam Harris: Well, uh, I completely agree with that except this one caveat which is I think the center of the bulls eye of altered states of meditation is not so altered.
It’s actually the thing that you want to realize from a contemplate point of view is not actually the same as the full kaleidoscope of effects, you get from psychedelics.
It’s not just.. and this is a distinction that I made, I think again on The End of Faith, between the content of consciousness and realizing a specific property of the nature of consciousness.
And there’s no question that, that, that in ordinary waking consciousness, that the content, the spectrum of content is trimmed down.
I mean we have, you know there’s this kind of feeling of because it’s all solid and it’s just me hearing my body. I’m kinda locked in my head and see you over there. There’s no…The energy of the situation is quite
Brian Redban: limited
Sam Harris: Yeah. And there are not too many surprises. We have all kinda have been thought logically to just perceive ourselves in the world. You give someone LSD or silicide or emasculin, that begins to change radically.
And it changes everyone. It can be terrifying. It can be incredibly blissful. Uhm, but what happens is people are flooded with new content and new feelings of meaning and new uhm, just the energetics change.
So you put your hand on a tree and you feel like the buzz of living contact with the tree which you have never felt in your life. Uhm, all of that, the more aspect that you get with psychedelics isn’t really what, isn’t the point of meditation.