Joe Rogan: But aren’t huge military companies like Halliburton and people that rebuild these places. People that are contractors. There’s a lot of money being spent, right.
Sam Harris: Yeah, there are companies that make money in times of war. Yeah. I mean so the people who make bullets, make money when they get to sell bullets.
But in terms of the cost to our economy in general and the cost to… and the cost in the lives of the men and women in our Military serving over there.
Everyone, not of the soldiers extracting wealth from the ground in Afghanistan or extracting oil. And yet when you hear them talk about their experience, what you don’t hear is a litany of we never should have done that. That was a complete waste of time. I can’t believe that
Joe Rogan: Wow, that’s not true at all.
Sam Harris: Well, no
Joe Rogan: I hear a lot of people online that are these former soldiers that have a lot of those stories.
Sam Harris: No, no. There’s some of that. I mean it
Joe Rogan: You can’t say you never hear
Sam Harris: No, no.
Joe Rogan: Because you do.
Sam Harris: I’m not saying but the.. it’s not all of what you hear. You also hear is an experience of, of really trying you know, building schools or building infrastructure and really trying to help a democracy grow in, in these places.
Now it is such a thankless job and… Again, I’m not, don’t. Don’t mistake me for being optimistic about what I’m all saying about what’s happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think it has been a disaster and uhm
Joe Rogan: But you think, ultimately it’s a good idea?
Sam Harris: No. Iraq, no. Uhm, Afghanistan, I think it was absolutely essential that we do something. Now, we clearly, we did it badly from Day 1 committing far too few troops and letting our proxies do it for us and do it badly and Osama Bin Laden got away.
Joe Rogan: But you see it as a war culture. You see it
Sam Harris: I
Joe Rogan: To get bad people out of control of the country. That they could be potentially dangerous to us. And it was worth the pre-emptive strike.
Sam Harris: Well, again, let’s just talk about the big picture. If you’re a pacifist, you think we should never do anything like this. You never pull out a gun and start shooting or threatened to shoot because nothing is worth killing for.
Now, I’m not a pacifist. I think if we all took a Gandhi in response to these problems and just you know got on our Facebook page and made a lot of noise, uhm, that there’s certain enemies we could have and do have who will just inherit the earth.
I mean so the thugs will win in that case. Uhm, Gandhi… Gandhi’s non-violence work against the British. Because the British were the British. And they had enough of the conscience not to kill everybody.
It wouldn’t have worked against Hitler. Uhm and Gandhi actually knew that. So, uhm, so the.. If you’re not gonna be a pacifist, then we’re… then the question is when do you pull out the guns.
And we can then have the intelligent discussion about whether it made any sense to pull out the guns because of Iraq or Afghanistan and uhm, and then there’s the pragmatic question of, of when you do it and how it’s best to do it. But..
Joe Rogan: So I can agree with that. I agree that we need guns because there are bad people in the world. We need an army. We need a military because there are bad people in the world.
But then when you look about our actions that define what, what our purpose is for this army. Look at our 2 main campaigns: Iraq and Afghanistan.
You admit it, they’re both complete fuck-up disasters so if that’s the case, how do you think will the rest of the world will look at us? Why wouldn’t they be upset with us?