I mean you burn a Koran by accident and basically, the war’s almost over and well lost because uhm, everyone takes to the streets and begins killing people.
There’s nothing more inflammatory than trespassing on their religious sensitivities and if you accidentally bomb a wedding and kill 50 children, you don’t get the response we recently got with you know, this Koran incident.
And so, it’s just, we’re not dealing with a culture that can have a sane discussion about the proper goals of human life and how to.. You know how to safeguard human happiness and, and uh..
Joe Rogan: So you’re in your mind, we need to be the policeman of the world. We’re the only ones who know what’s right. We’re the only ones who’s gonna enforce it. We’re the good guys and so we need to go over there.
Sam Harris: Who? Where?
Joe Rogan: America, I guess. The military industrial complex that runs America. What is it? Who’s we?
Sam Harris: We is uhm, well, just look at. Again, take one piece that you agreed on or the gains we’ve made socially and culturally and morally around racism. So, we have, we’re at least seeing the daylight on the subject of racism in this country.
So we have the benefit of a running start, ahead of South Africa. And we see that they have that repatriate thing going on. And we begin, it takes us awhile but we begin to apply pressure to them.
You know boycotting trade with South Africa or blocking trade. And that has an effect. Now that’s uhm, if you could get the entire world on the same page on each of these questions. I mean the treatment of women is even a bigger variable than, than notions of race.
Because here, you’re talking about half of the human population. So wherever they’re treating women terribly, uh, that’s a… and systematically not just, not by accident because there’s an ideology that women can be treated terribly.
That’s a human rights problem that every society that has a robust conception of human rights can figure out how to apply pressures to. Now, stopping trade may not be enough.
And then you have all these other secondary effects of when you apply sanctions to a country then women and everyone, kids and everyone else suffer. So it’s such a blunt instrument. We don’t have… We don’t have good tools to deal with these problems.
Joe Rogan: I could see it just a justification, one of many as to why a part of the world was run by bad people, with bad ideas. But I don’t think that’s the motivation to go there.
I don’t think that’s the main motivation to go there. I just don’t believe that the army would act that way. That they would spend so much money to save some women. I don’t buy it.
Sam Harris: Well, I’m not saying that’s the only motivation but it’s
Joe Rogan: But it’s one that you think is the primary one.
Sam Harris: Well, again, I would have to focus on any specific conflict that we’re talking about. But when you ask yourself why?
There’s soldiers done multiple tours of duty in Afghanistan and feel committed to the project and feel reasonably good about what they’ve done.
Why do they feel that way? Why are they, why don’t they get up every morning feeling like they’re completely wasting their life and taking massive risks for no reason at all.
Joe Rogan: Well, you know I have to interview each and every individual one to find out what their motivation was but I look at Afghanistan as a giant money-making effort.
I look at how much money they’re making in minerals. I don’t think they send tanks to save women. I don’t believe that.
Sam Harris: It’s not… it’s not the money.. It’s the most costly. These 2: Afghanistan and Iraq are the most costly things
Joe Rogan: Sure. Paid by taxpayers of the American people.
Sam Harris: We’ve made. Plundered we made