Sam Harris: Well, it was rational to go in and try to kill Osama Bin Laden and the rest of the people who brought us September 11. And uhm, and it was, September 11th to some degree was a price paid for never having dealt with these people in the first place.
I mean they, they… when you listen to the chatter on their side about how we were a paper tiger that you know, could blow up the coal. They could blow up embassies in Kenya. You know we got bombed in Lebanon and we just left.
I mean we were scared of conflict after Vietnam. And uhm, that was noticeable to everyone on their side and uhm, so to some degree this problem was just getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
Joe Rogan: So you think it’s possible that September 11 happened because we didn’t invade Iraq earlier? Because we didn’t go to Afghanistan earlier?
Sam Harris: Well, no. We didn’t deal with the threat of Jihadi terrorism earlier.
Joe Rogan: What upset them in the first place ‘coz we have troops on their land?
Sam Harris: Well, you gotta be precise about exactly why that is offensive. When you look at why… Osama Bin Laden and the rest of Al Qaeda were upset, it was because, it was not because, it was not a ationalistic concern of you know we’re proud Saudis and our..
Joe Rogan: It was holy land, right?
Sam Harris: This was a theologically grievance. I mean Osama Bin Laden was out of sorts with the Saudi government at that point and he is uhm, Osama and anyone else enamored of this whole notion of global Jihad, want a global caliphate.
I mean this is the idea that we’re living in a perver– perverse time where Islam has been, has been derogated and subjugated and has not yet triumphed. And it has a mandate to triumph in this world.
And so if you really believe that, if you have to believe, if you believe that you had to fight to spread the true faith, uhm for the glory of God in this life and win the game, you know Genghis Khan style, or more relevantly Mohammed style in this life that is…
That dictates a certain kind of grandiosity and arrogance and expansionism. And people like Osama Bin Laden really believe that. And he was free to live a very different life than he lived.
He didn’t have to spend his time in caves scheming to defeat the great Satan. He could just have been chilling in Paris. I mean, he had a lot of money and a lot of opportunity.
Joe Rogan: Do you buy the official story? How they killed him and threw him into
Sam Harris: Uhm, I haven’t thought about what might not be true but it seem, I, I, I basically buy the official story that we went in and killed him and what happened to his body or why I’m not sure. I think we didn’t.
Joe Rogan: I think it would be amazing if he was dead a long time ago and they just concocted a crazy hero rescue story Jessica Lynch style.
Sam Harris: No, no.. I think that would be
Joe Rogan: <laughing>
Sam Harris: I think, I think the uh. No, I mean ‘coz there would be so many other if you were gonna fake something like that, first of all, it’s just so hard to fake anything. We couldn’t fake Jessica Lynch.
Joe Rogan: Yes
Sam Harris: You know it’s like, it’s like… people’s.. this is what’s wrong with..
Joe Rogan: If I fake it with helicopters right? Why do it with that?
Sam Harris: Yes, it’s just and it’s.. There’s just to.. These things… Operations like that go wrong spectacularly and everyone knows about it and they go right sometimes and it’s very difficult to fake the Pakistanis aren’t acting like we faked it. You know
Joe Rogan: Right
Sam Harris: They’re just pissed that we actually successfully got in there to seal it sick style and got out. Uhm, so…